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	<title>Comments on: Topics for discussion</title>
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	<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/</link>
	<description>Discussions on education and learning</description>
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		<title>By: Educational Discourse &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Digital Confusion</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-2187</link>
		<dc:creator>Educational Discourse &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Digital Confusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-2187</guid>
		<description>[...] anyone who has read my writing over the past few months knows that I do not agree with this whole idea on several levels. I don&#8217;t think that putting people on sides and then [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] anyone who has read my writing over the past few months knows that I do not agree with this whole idea on several levels. I don&#8217;t think that putting people on sides and then [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KenMarshall</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-1313</link>
		<dc:creator>KenMarshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-1313</guid>
		<description>Thanks for helping</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for helping</p>
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		<title>By: Educational Discourse &#187; Let&#8217;s clean out that textbook room.</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>Educational Discourse &#187; Let&#8217;s clean out that textbook room.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-136</guid>
		<description>[...] There has been a wonderful discussion going on in relation to the Prensky article &#8220;Engage Me or Enrage Me&#8221;. Now, I&#8217;ve spent a few days refiing my thought on this blog. The comments have been spectacular and I&#8217;ve grown to know a few of you even more (Thanks for dedicated entry Scott  ) Now, I&#8217;ve been preparing a rather lengthy discussion and then I read Dean Shareski&#8217;s tag article where he comments on posting length. So, with that in mind, off we go&#8230;. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There has been a wonderful discussion going on in relation to the Prensky article &#8220;Engage Me or Enrage Me&#8221;. Now, I&#8217;ve spent a few days refiing my thought on this blog. The comments have been spectacular and I&#8217;ve grown to know a few of you even more (Thanks for dedicated entry Scott  ) Now, I&#8217;ve been preparing a rather lengthy discussion and then I read Dean Shareski&#8217;s tag article where he comments on posting length. So, with that in mind, off we go&#8230;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Foote</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn Foote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m throwing in two cents late in the conversation here, but I mentioned in a post on Dangerously Irrelevant that I changed my thinking after reading some results from a study at the Pew Internet Project.

Some of the takeaways for me about video games, that I hadn&#039;t thought about(not being much of a gamer) are that :  players receive rewards for achieving a level and can advance to the &quot;next level&quot; when they complete something.  They put in the amount of work it takes to advance, and then they want to move up.

I was thinking aside from the &quot;entertainment&quot; and engagement discussion--do we let students &quot;move up&quot; a level when they complete or master things, or are we holding them in place until the rest of the class gets to the &quot;next level&quot; also.  And if we are, isn&#039;t that doing them a disservice?  And in our classrooms, no matter how engaging, instead of rewarding them for having &quot;completed the level,&quot; are we asking them to wait until everyone else completes the level also?

Now, I would say that in a video game, when kids play together and are waiting on another player to &quot;finish&quot;, they are learning because they are watching or helping or coaching, generally, though sometimes they are just bored, while waiting.   But are our students helping or coaching others, or just waiting?

I was reading about the Charlotte Mecklenberg public library which has an avatar character on Second Life (article in SLJ)--I may be blurry on the details, but I don&#039;t necessarily think as a librarian I need to be an avatar to engage students.   But I do think this technology that our students use daily has something to say to us in schools(and school libraries) about how students today are learning and will continue to learn.

I had this same sort of debate in my school over note cards for documenting research.  I feel we should be teaching students to highlight print outs, or use sites like del.icio.us or Google Notebook, or a myriad of other electronic note taking strategies rather than teach them to use note cards with the exact note card format, because I think those are the methods they will naturally be employing, and we should give them the best tools for managing their process.   I do think many(most) teachers have moved away from that strategy.

Anyway, my point here is that we need to teach students strategies that will fit into their &#039;real lives&#039; if they are going to really be life long learners.  And maybe from video games, iPod use, text messaging, etc...we can take larger lessons of how they are used into the schools and think about what they teach us about our students.

Thanks for the fascinating back and forth discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m throwing in two cents late in the conversation here, but I mentioned in a post on Dangerously Irrelevant that I changed my thinking after reading some results from a study at the Pew Internet Project.</p>
<p>Some of the takeaways for me about video games, that I hadn&#8217;t thought about(not being much of a gamer) are that :  players receive rewards for achieving a level and can advance to the &#8220;next level&#8221; when they complete something.  They put in the amount of work it takes to advance, and then they want to move up.</p>
<p>I was thinking aside from the &#8220;entertainment&#8221; and engagement discussion&#8211;do we let students &#8220;move up&#8221; a level when they complete or master things, or are we holding them in place until the rest of the class gets to the &#8220;next level&#8221; also.  And if we are, isn&#8217;t that doing them a disservice?  And in our classrooms, no matter how engaging, instead of rewarding them for having &#8220;completed the level,&#8221; are we asking them to wait until everyone else completes the level also?</p>
<p>Now, I would say that in a video game, when kids play together and are waiting on another player to &#8220;finish&#8221;, they are learning because they are watching or helping or coaching, generally, though sometimes they are just bored, while waiting.   But are our students helping or coaching others, or just waiting?</p>
<p>I was reading about the Charlotte Mecklenberg public library which has an avatar character on Second Life (article in SLJ)&#8211;I may be blurry on the details, but I don&#8217;t necessarily think as a librarian I need to be an avatar to engage students.   But I do think this technology that our students use daily has something to say to us in schools(and school libraries) about how students today are learning and will continue to learn.</p>
<p>I had this same sort of debate in my school over note cards for documenting research.  I feel we should be teaching students to highlight print outs, or use sites like del.icio.us or Google Notebook, or a myriad of other electronic note taking strategies rather than teach them to use note cards with the exact note card format, because I think those are the methods they will naturally be employing, and we should give them the best tools for managing their process.   I do think many(most) teachers have moved away from that strategy.</p>
<p>Anyway, my point here is that we need to teach students strategies that will fit into their &#8216;real lives&#8217; if they are going to really be life long learners.  And maybe from video games, iPod use, text messaging, etc&#8230;we can take larger lessons of how they are used into the schools and think about what they teach us about our students.</p>
<p>Thanks for the fascinating back and forth discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: kwhobbes</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>kwhobbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-114</guid>
		<description>Chris, Dean and Scott, Thanks for the comments. Chris, no, there is no reason. I&#039;ll check my options. Dean and Scott, I certainly think that the conversation has merit. I know that I am constantly learning and this is the type of conversation that pushes me to stretch. I&#039;m at the point of creating another post in response to more of what I have been reading. 
Kelly</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, Dean and Scott, Thanks for the comments. Chris, no, there is no reason. I&#8217;ll check my options. Dean and Scott, I certainly think that the conversation has merit. I know that I am constantly learning and this is the type of conversation that pushes me to stretch. I&#8217;m at the point of creating another post in response to more of what I have been reading.<br />
Kelly</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Shareski</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Shareski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 05:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-108</guid>
		<description>My fear is that we justify out of date and irrelevant work as the key components to &quot;teaching gumption&quot;.  If we begin with the end in mind, that is, provide relevant and purposeful learning, it will by its nature include engagement and gumption, for even in the midst of engaging learning, there will be the need to do the &quot;dirty work&quot; or less exciting work. Having said that, it always becomes a matter of perspective.  

After riding the cable cars in San Francisco this weekend, I was amazed at the joy and enthusiasm of the drivers. One man kept saying, &quot;I love my job!&quot;. Partly because you could tell he was enjoying interacting with the riders but certainly his job requires gumption and is highly monotonous.  He just didn&#039;t see it that way.

I don&#039; t think we&#039;ll be able to convince all kids to adopt this attitude but certainly we&#039;ll have fewer problems if we continue to strive to incorporate a greater variety of instructional strategies but equally as important, extract those portions of the curriculum that are most relevant.  We are fortunate in Saskatchewan to have a certain degree of autonomy that we can make some of these decision at the classroom level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My fear is that we justify out of date and irrelevant work as the key components to &#8220;teaching gumption&#8221;.  If we begin with the end in mind, that is, provide relevant and purposeful learning, it will by its nature include engagement and gumption, for even in the midst of engaging learning, there will be the need to do the &#8220;dirty work&#8221; or less exciting work. Having said that, it always becomes a matter of perspective.  </p>
<p>After riding the cable cars in San Francisco this weekend, I was amazed at the joy and enthusiasm of the drivers. One man kept saying, &#8220;I love my job!&#8221;. Partly because you could tell he was enjoying interacting with the riders but certainly his job requires gumption and is highly monotonous.  He just didn&#8217;t see it that way.</p>
<p>I don&#8217; t think we&#8217;ll be able to convince all kids to adopt this attitude but certainly we&#8217;ll have fewer problems if we continue to strive to incorporate a greater variety of instructional strategies but equally as important, extract those portions of the curriculum that are most relevant.  We are fortunate in Saskatchewan to have a certain degree of autonomy that we can make some of these decision at the classroom level.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLeod</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-107</guid>
		<description>Kelly, congrats. You inspired me to write what may be my longest post ever:

http://tinyurl.com/34nwb7

=)  SCOTT</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelly, congrats. You inspired me to write what may be my longest post ever:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/34nwb7" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/34nwb7</a></p>
<p>=)  SCOTT</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Craft</title>
		<link>http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Craft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kwhobbes.edublogs.org/2007/01/21/topics-for-discussion/#comment-105</guid>
		<description>I notice you don&#039;t publish full feeds, is that on purpose? I almost missed this post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I notice you don&#8217;t publish full feeds, is that on purpose? I almost missed this post!</p>
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